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  • Wmo

    This turns out to be a controversial subject most times it comes up. So I'll start by saying that I run WVO, not WMO but I did mix a couple gallons of WMO in once after doing my homework. I'm not going to go dig up the documentation again, but I did find that the EPA endorses burning some WMO in diesel engines manufactured prior to 2007 (I think it was up to 8%).

    This question is mostly for Clay because it's about a post he made a long time ago (way back in 2006) on another forum but others might know something about this. His post said that, if you are going to use WMO, make sure you don't mix it with WVO.

    Clay, is that still your opinion? What is the problem with mixing? One thing I noticed is that they don't really mix - the WMO settles right to the bottom. But I don't think that should be a problem.

  • #2
    How do you filter your WMO? I tried a little to experiment and it clogged my filter within a few minutes, and it took me quite a while to clean everything out.
    '01 F350, lariat LE, cc, lb, drw, TSP 6pos. chip w/ swamps ss tunes, FF stage 1.5, MBRP 4" turbo back, cooling mist water injection.

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    • #3
      Previously I had tried filtering with the Dana method, but if I do it again, I'll be using a still. I also had the filter clog up quickly the first time I tried it.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by sbaker View Post
        This turns out to be a controversial subject most times it comes up. So I'll start by saying that I run WVO, not WMO but I did mix a couple gallons of WMO in once after doing my homework. I'm not going to go dig up the documentation again, but I did find that the EPA endorses burning some WMO in diesel engines manufactured prior to 2007 (I think it was up to 8%).

        This question is mostly for Clay because it's about a post he made a long time ago (way back in 2006) on another forum but others might know something about this. His post said that, if you are going to use WMO, make sure you don't mix it with WVO.

        Clay, is that still your opinion? What is the problem with mixing? One thing I noticed is that they don't really mix - the WMO settles right to the bottom. But I don't think that should be a problem.
        Wow, gotta be carefull bringing old stuff back to the table. As i learn things my views to have to be altered some but this one has not changed.
        crank case oil and WVO can in some cases polymerize together and turn into a substance i have heard refered to as "play Dough". Also heard the reference to "mayonase" I don't want any of that in my fuel system.
        This poly normaly occures in the crank case when a failed injector begines dumping fuel into the valve cover area to be mixed with the oil. In this case the fuel is WVO. I have a friend who began running WVO after learning of my setup and that was 2 years ago. Recently he decided he was tired of messing with it all and wanted to sell his truck but he was upside down in the payments so while trying to sell it he continued to burn the last of his WVO supply - did i mention he had recently switched to Amsoil and was looking at 10k mile changes - so he had a failed injector or 2 that went undetected, and his engine locked up on him one evening in his driveway. It was full of playdough. New engine time. Now hes really upside down in it. I think hes got near 50k in it and he couldn't sell it for more than 30. This was i think a 2005 model with less than 50k miles on it.
        Now, i have had WVO in my crank cse before and this did not happen so i am not sure of the difference other than i was not running a syn. motor oil and maybe that was a key. I don't want to find out the hard way though.
        Last edited by Clay; 02-17-2009, 10:54 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by CHenry View Post
          Wow, gotta be carefull bringing old stuff back to the table. As i learn things my views to have to be altered some but this one has not changed.
          Yeah, I wasn't sure if you'd even remember saying it... it was almost 3 years ago .

          Thanks for the explanation, I'll watch out for that.

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          • #6
            How do you filter your WMO? I tried a little to experiment and it clogged my filter within a few minutes, and it took me quite a while to clean everything out.
            information ccie dumpsanditil testand ccent exam

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            • #7
              A guy in another forum ran some used motor oil through his CF and the stuff it pulled out was invredible. Lots of metal so if your thinking of using this in your fuel system, your playing with fire and will likely get burned.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Clay Henry View Post
                Wow, gotta be carefull bringing old stuff back to the table. As i learn things my views to have to be altered some but this one has not changed.
                crank case oil and WVO can in some cases polymerize together and turn into a substance i have heard refered to as "play Dough". Also heard the reference to "mayonase" I don't want any of that in my fuel system.
                This poly normaly occures in the crank case when a failed injector begines dumping fuel into the valve cover area to be mixed with the oil. In this case the fuel is WVO. I have a friend who began running WVO after learning of my setup and that was 2 years ago. Recently he decided he was tired of messing with it all and wanted to sell his truck but he was upside down in the payments so while trying to sell it he continued to burn the last of his WVO supply - did i mention he had recently switched to Amsoil and was looking at 10k mile changes - so he had a failed injector or 2 that went undetected, and his engine locked up on him one evening in his driveway. It was full of playdough. New engine time. Now hes really upside down in it. I think hes got near 50k in it and he couldn't sell it for more than 30. This was i think a 2005 model with less than 50k miles on it.
                Now, i have had WVO in my crank cse before and this did not happen so i am not sure of the difference other than i was not running a syn. motor oil and maybe that was a key. I don't want to find out the hard way though.

                I don't believe that this is completely accurate.

                The WVO won't polymerize by just being in contact with WMO, like if you pour 2 gallons of each in a container and mixed it. The problem lies with long OCI's (oil change intervals) and WVO as a fuel. As you all know, some fuel will make it past the piston rings and when it gets mixed with the crank lube. The crank lube is exposed to a lot of air (airation), heat and many diffenent metals, steel being the most common but there may also be small amounts of copper, zinc and other metals that are reactive to WVO. If the amount of WVO becomes excessive in the crank lube the WVO begins to polyimerize due to the same things that the crank lube is subjected to, heat, O2 and reactive metals and that is what causes the WVO to polymerize, not the chemical make-up of the WMO.

                The problem the guy selling the Ford had is that his OCI was way too long. WVO blew past the rings and he wasn't changing his oil soon enough to get rid of the WVO that accumulated, the WVO polymerized and began to turn into sludge and sludge does not lubricate nor actuate injectors very well. If he reduced his OCI to half or more of what he was doing he probably would not have had this issue.
                1991 VW Jetta 1.6 N/A Frybrid System
                2003 Jeep Liberty (gas)
                2006 Dodge Ram 1500 Hemi, looking to trade/buy a 03-06 Ram 2500 DIESEL!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Kroni View Post
                  I don't believe that this is completely accurate.

                  The WVO won't polymerize by just being in contact with WMO, like if you pour 2 gallons of each in a container and mixed it. The problem lies with long OCI's (oil change intervals) and WVO as a fuel. As you all know, some fuel will make it past the piston rings and when it gets mixed with the crank lube. The crank lube is exposed to a lot of air (airation), heat and many diffenent metals, steel being the most common but there may also be small amounts of copper, zinc and other metals that are reactive to WVO. If the amount of WVO becomes excessive in the crank lube the WVO begins to polyimerize due to the same things that the crank lube is subjected to, heat, O2 and reactive metals and that is what causes the WVO to polymerize, not the chemical make-up of the WMO.

                  The problem the guy selling the Ford had is that his OCI was way too long. WVO blew past the rings and he wasn't changing his oil soon enough to get rid of the WVO that accumulated, the WVO polymerized and began to turn into sludge and sludge does not lubricate nor actuate injectors very well. If he reduced his OCI to half or more of what he was doing he probably would not have had this issue.
                  I honestly don't know what happend to cause it to turn to pay dough, i have had vegi oil in my crank case more than once and it never did anything. He was also running amsoil syn. a contributing factor? Maybe.

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                  • #10
                    I guess the AMSOIL could be a factor, but I have never heard you it before.

                    I have never had a situation where my crank lube was contaminated with WVO to the point of a problem (my OCI is 2500 miles and I use conventional Rotella 15W40), but I have seen pictures on forums and heard the horror stories of crank lube that basically turned into a sludgy version of Play-Doh and have zero lubricating properties. Everything that I have read concerning this, revolves around shorter OCI to flush out the WVO contaminated crank lube before it becomes a problem. Is it the truth or a wifestale, I don't know because I don't have the first hand experience with it, but the theory sounds pretty soild to me knowing what causes WVO to polymerize.

                    How much WVO have you had in your crank lube and how did you know it was there?
                    1991 VW Jetta 1.6 N/A Frybrid System
                    2003 Jeep Liberty (gas)
                    2006 Dodge Ram 1500 Hemi, looking to trade/buy a 03-06 Ram 2500 DIESEL!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Kroni View Post

                      How much WVO have you had in your crank lube and how did you know it was there?
                      I had around 10 guarts of vegi in my sump the first time
                      And the second time about 3 quarts. When boil out eats injectors they will leak an amazing amount of fuel into the valve cover area ending up in the lube oil. The first time it happened the truck got to a point it would not run in about 500 miles. Took it in to ford and they said they drained around 25 quarts out. I had no idea it would even hold that much but it will. The second time, i was checking the oil and on the dipstick, the level had rissen indicating leaking injectors and boil out.
                      Why i stayed in this game after that can only be attributed to temporary insanity i think.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by sbaker View Post
                        This turns out to be a controversial subject most times it comes up. So I'll start by saying that I run WVO, not WMO but I did mix a couple gallons of WMO in once after doing my homework. I'm not going to go dig up the documentation again, but I did find that the EPA endorses burning some WMO in diesel engines manufactured prior to 2007 (I think it was up to 8%).

                        This question is mostly for Clay because it's about a post he made a long time ago (way back in 2006) on another forum but others might know something about this. His post said that, if you are going to use WMO, make sure you don't mix it with WVO.

                        Clay, is that still your opinion? What is the problem with mixing? One thing I noticed is that they don't really mix - the WMO settles right to the bottom. But I don't think that should be a problem.


                        Ok I read through the entire thread, and everything everyone has mentioned put aside, your own post is contradicting.

                        You say you did the research and it's OK to run up to an 8% blend.

                        However you then say the WMO actually sinks to the bottom in the WVO tank, so you're not running a blend, you're running a very high concentration of WMO, until it burns then you're pumping WVO.... right? Am I reading that right?

                        Maybe there isn't a problem with mixing it (maybe there is) but it sounds like you're not even getting it mixed?
                        2006 F-250 6.0 4x4 SC/SB Greasin since 08/18/2010
                        SCT Xcal2 w/Innovative Diesel Tuning 466/772 7/19/08
                        Originally posted by Snake
                        Cause his job is to make oil and break things.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Clay Henry View Post
                          I had around 10 guarts of vegi in my sump the first time
                          And the second time about 3 quarts. When boil out eats injectors they will leak an amazing amount of fuel into the valve cover area ending up in the lube oil. The first time it happened the truck got to a point it would not run in about 500 miles. Took it in to ford and they said they drained around 25 quarts out. I had no idea it would even hold that much but it will. The second time, i was checking the oil and on the dipstick, the level had rissen indicating leaking injectors and boil out.
                          Why i stayed in this game after that can only be attributed to temporary insanity i think.
                          WOW that's incredible!!! What did the crank lube look like with that much veg in it and how much driving did you do with it in there?

                          I have been very fortunate that I have not encountered Boil Out yet, well at least I think. About a month ago I got 2 cubies from one of my higher end restaurants where I usually only get 1. 1 of the cubies still had the cardboard box around it, which they usually don't have at this place. I took both home, pulled the cubie out of the box and it was clear that it was 90% water and some nasty looking VO/junk in with it. I don't know if its boil out or just water and I don't know what to do with it... Other than that I have not encountered boil out.

                          You say that boil out will eat through injectors??!! What is in that stuff? So, besides oil change/flush you had to replace all of your injectors? Twice?! You must have a money tree out back!
                          1991 VW Jetta 1.6 N/A Frybrid System
                          2003 Jeep Liberty (gas)
                          2006 Dodge Ram 1500 Hemi, looking to trade/buy a 03-06 Ram 2500 DIESEL!

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                          • #14
                            Anyone want to test their old amsoil on the next oil change?
                            2001 Excursion, V3, TS Chip, Walker BTM.
                            2002 F350 Crew, V2, DP Tuner, Walker BTM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mdub707 View Post
                              Ok I read through the entire thread, and everything everyone has mentioned put aside, your own post is contradicting.

                              You say you did the research and it's OK to run up to an 8% blend.
                              What I actually said in the text you quoted was that I found evidence that the EPA endorses disposal of WMO by burning it as a fuel, including for use by blending up to 8% with diesel fuel.

                              It would probably blend better with diesel fuel. In fact, the cubies of WMO I have now with WVO and diesel mixed in them seem to have stayed mixed for the most part. Where I really saw them separate was in my filtration still.

                              Originally posted by Mdub707 View Post
                              However you then say the WMO actually sinks to the bottom in the WVO tank, so you're not running a blend, you're running a very high concentration of WMO, until it burns then you're pumping WVO.... right? Am I reading that right?

                              Maybe there isn't a problem with mixing it (maybe there is) but it sounds like you're not even getting it mixed?
                              Maybe. Either way, I can tell you that even though I don't have the play-doh Clay was talking about, and even though I did not have any noticeable long term problems from running the WMO, I did find that running WMO would clog my filter up quickly despite the fact that I had filtered it just like I filter WVO.

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