What About Lye/Boil Out

[waytallwhitey]

Will using a bowl centrifuge get it out? Is there a way to test if my wvo has it?

[Marv]

Will using a bowl centrifuge get it out? Is there a way to test if my wvo has it?

Waytall, as far as lye, I'm not sure if there is a way to test for it.

If I'm not mistaken, Clay came up with a simple way to test for boil out. I believe it was to put a small amount of oil in a sealable container (20 ounce Coke bottle for instance) along with warm water and then shake it. If boil out is present, pressure will built inside the container.

Double check with him though...I might have it confused with something else...and I don't want to lead you down the wrong path.

[Hooter]

I remember reading on the Frybrid forum about using litmus paper to test or send it to a lab or something like that. I have talked to a few kitchen workers at various restaurants, and the have found that the oil contaminated with lye and such generally has a lot of water in the oil dumpster. What they do is they will take the oil out and dump it. Then they will clean the fryer with water and a chemical, and dump that water in the dumpster as well. So as a general rule, if the oil has a lot of water in it, avoid it.


FRYBRID FRYBRID FRYBRID

[skyskijason]

What they do is they will take the oil out and dump it. Then they will clean the fryer with water and a chemical, and dump that water in the dumpster as well. So as a general rule, if the oil has a lot of water in it, avoid it.

This is correct. I have convinced several places they wash more oil off the salad plates than what is in THAT water - they now dump it down the drain.

The litmus paper won't work in oil, but you can add water and when it separates test the Ph of the water. Once you know what it smells like (uh, acid?) you will recognize it FOREVERMORE.

A 'solution' for boil out/lye in your VO is mist washing. The acid is not soluble in oil, but is soluble in water. Theoretically, adequate dewatering will remove it - I suspect this is why some claim CF 'removes' it. I think mist washing may be the best method for filtering (and maybe dewatering!) anyway. Working on new 'high volume' home filtration system now and I think mist wash will be first step!!

When I changed my injectors (they weren't broken, just 240k and 50k on VO) I called Swamps back after they got my cores. Jonathon asked why I cared. I told him I had 50k VO miles and he proceded to tell me they have looked at MANY VO injectors and 'boil out' was the only thing that caused damage. My injectors had some of this damage, but not severe. (I got to stop by the shop and get a tour and see my old junk!! VERY cool guys!) I knew I had burned about 100 gals or so that had this crap in it maybe 2 months before installing the new sticks.

As for avoiding oil w/lots of water - great, if ya can. Otherwise, it just requires a little more effort (or TIME) and as long as it doesn't stink like puke (that'd be bacteria living in the water) or smell like the acid - the dewatered oil burns jus fine!!:chuckles:

[FastCote]

Be careful assuming mist washing will work as well for straight veggie as it does for the bio crowd. (they have great results getting the magnasol out of finished bio diesel)

I tried the mist washing thing last fall for the same reason (I was spooked about lye)...

I bought the reactor tank below. and a couple of sizes of mist nozzles. I don't think the oil was warm enough though cause the water didn't completely separate and, when i turned the pump on, I ended up making a 50 gallon milkshake. I had to add TONS of heat to break the emulsion. I was a big messy pain in the A$$ and ate up tons of my time.

I haven't given up on it, but it is certainly a summer time project.

[skyskijason]

Fastcote, the oil MUST be warm - I think 140-150 is prolly minimum. High fat content oil may need more! The water should also be warm to avoid cooling the oil. It is easy to experiment w/small quantities. I use the little 'hot plate' single burner stove I use for HPT. Heat a soup can 3/4 full of VO and use spray bottle (window cleaner works great) to mist water over the oil...

You are very correct, mist washing bio-d is MUCH more forgiving!!

[FastCote]

ya, I managed to make it work in small batches.

The big poly cone tank like in my pic have relatively low max working temps (like 120-140) so I tried to error on the cool side. apparently it was a BIG error!

[Clay]

This is correct. I have convinced several places they wash more oil off the salad plates than what is in THAT water - they now dump it down the drain.

The litmus paper won't work in oil, but you can add water and when it separates test the Ph of the water. Once you know what it smells like (uh, acid?) you will recognize it FOREVERMORE.

A 'solution' for boil out/lye in your VO is mist washing. The acid is not soluble in oil, but is soluble in water. Theoretically, adequate dewatering will remove it - I suspect this is why some claim CF 'removes' it. I think mist washing may be the best method for filtering (and maybe dewatering!) anyway. Working on new 'high volume' home filtration system now and I think mist wash will be first step!!

When I changed my injectors (they weren't broken, just 240k and 50k on VO) I called Swamps back after they got my cores. Jonathon asked why I cared. I told him I had 50k VO miles and he proceded to tell me they have looked at MANY VO injectors and 'boil out' was the only thing that caused damage. My injectors had some of this damage, but not severe. (I got to stop by the shop and get a tour and see my old junk!! VERY cool guys!) I knew I had burned about 100 gals or so that had this crap in it maybe 2 months before installing the new sticks.

As for avoiding oil w/lots of water - great, if ya can. Otherwise, it just requires a little more effort (or TIME) and as long as it doesn't stink like puke (that'd be bacteria living in the water) or smell like the acid - the dewatered oil burns jus fine!!:chuckles:

Not trying to spilt hairs here but Sodium Hydroxid/boil out is not an acid... its a caustic Base - exact oposite of acid. I am working on figuring this problem out....a way to netralize a Base (bring the PH back to a neutral 6-7) by addin acid to it. To neutralize acid you add a base (sodium bycabinate for instance AKA Arm and Hammer soda) and likewise to neutralize a base you can add acid How to test for the stuff quick and easy is another problem all together. I played with a pool PH test kit with some tainted oil (i tainted it for testing) and also tryed water washing it to test the PH of the water. My results weren't real conclusive.

[Clay]

If anyone has experience with lye in there oil its me. Jason kids me that the oil gods hate me.
I have had this happen twice (first batch i ever pumped from a dumpster and again when i got tainted oil from the food vendors at the state fair)
Both times i ponied up 2,900 grean backs for new injectors
After that second a$$ reaming at the ford dealer, i will never use oil that is not from a verified source and if it comes from a dumpster, i will find a way to test it....send it off to a lab if i have to.
I honestly can't tell you why i am even still using vegi after that second incedent but i guess i'm just hard headed that way and my wife is still married to me so she has some amount of confidence in me i guess.

[skyskijason]

Not trying to spilt hairs here but Sodium Hydroxid/boil out is not an acid... its a caustic Base - exact oposite of acid. I am working on figuring this problem out....a way to netralize a Base (bring the PH back to a neutral 6-7) by addin acid to it. To neutralize acid you add a base (sodium bycabinate for instance AKA Arm and Hammer soda) and likewise to neutralize a base you can add acid How to test for the stuff quick and easy is another problem all together. I played with a pool PH test kit with some tainted oil (i tainted it for testing) and also tryed water washing it to test the PH of the water. My results weren't real conclusive.

No problem, its not the first time I've been mistaken! I have issues with adding MORE chems to the oil. Some of the CF proponents claim CF will 'remove' this chemical (among their other 'claims'). I've had some of this 'contaminated' oil in a 55 gal drum for months. I pulled a sample from the top of drum recently and it had almost NO odor anymore - previously knocked you down! This lends some credit to the theory that thorough dewatering may remove it.

What did you do for mist washing and testing?

I may try washing a sample of contaminated oil later today (it is sunny and prolly 60* outside already (10:30am) - yeeeha!

[Clay]

What did you do for mist washing and testing?

I may try washing a sample of contaminated oil later today (it is sunny and prolly 60* outside already (10:30am) - yeeeha!

Let me rephrase...i didn't wash it persay, i mixed it up - not violently but gently and it formed a partial emulsion. I wanted something i could do on site at a resturant without needing a mist bottle.

[skyskijason]

If the oil and water was warm, the water should separate fairly quickly. If not, just wait until it does and check Ph of the water. If ya did this 2 or 3 times using same oil, we SHOULD see an increase in Ph. (Did I get it right this time?)

I forgot I had a kid to take to Dr. this afternoon, no mist washing experiments. I have 55 gal drum of NASTY stuff ready to wash. It is high fat and boil-out contaminated. I will draw it down to maybe 40 gals and heat to 140. Mist hot water over it until drum is full. If I have to wait for water to settle out I will. After it separates, I'll pull the water from bottom and Ph test w/litmus paper.

If its still alkaline, another wash and check again.

Sound OK?

[Clay]

I like the sound of that...let us know how it goes. Might pick up one of them cheap swimming pool test kits too and try that.

[skyskijason]

I like the sound of that...let us know how it goes. Might pick up one of them cheap swimming pool test kits too and try that.

Got one here. I guess I was concerned about having trouble reading the color on pool kit if test water has any color to it.... We'll see! Oil is heating up now!:chuckles: I know the kids have a chemistry set w/litmus strips in it, but the darn thing is eluding me - where can I buy them in this tiny little town?

I have wifey checking at university today as well, after all she is a biology lab assistant - and as a 4.0 GPA student, knows all her professors very well! (We are so proud of her!)

[greasyX]

Non-bleached paper with one part lemon juice and some corn starch will work in a pinch..............