WVO and water removal...

[Marv]

Since I'm always learning as I go, I figured I'd take a few moments to continue reading up on water removal methods for oils. I ran across this site that I thought was interesting and figured I'd share.

Most of you guys probably already know this stuff, but I thought it might help someone out.

http://www.oilanalysis.com/article_d...?articleid=503

One thing I found interesting was the following:

"Absorption Removal
Typically, most filter media will absorb a small amount of moisture from the oil, resulting in swelling of the media. This is particularly true for cellulose-based media. In fact, examination of used filters will often indicate if the presence of water is a concern. Some filter cartridges with an additional wrap consisting of polymer and desiccants are available. These filters are specifically designed to remove water by absorption and remove both emulsified and free water, as well as solids. However, the elements typically have a limited volume capacity and are best fitted to a portable filter cart for minor water ingression problems."

My question is whether or not the Donaldson has this capability. I checked the Donaldson site, but no specific mention of it's filtering capabilities. As Clay has said, and I would agree, I'm sure it has the ability to some degree.

I don't think it will catch the emulsified though. Anyone see any filters that claim to catch that?

[greasyX]

GoldenRod Aqua-block works to a certain extent,can be had with housing at any Tractor Supply Company store fairly priced.Personally I feel more comfortable with my centrifuge more than anything else.I could warrant that expense because all my cars and home run on WVO..............greasy

[Clay]

Don't think that Donaldson is intended to be a water block filter by design - i could be wrong though. That being the case, they wouldn't publish detailed specs on its water blocking capabilities. No canister filter is really made for this i don't think and the desicants has been tossed around on the frybrid site with no luck.
The only way to be sure your water free is to dewater the oil well.
With that said i have known one guy who pumped dumpster oil straight into his tank...in January up north in PA....meaning the cold temps did not allow the dumpster oil to settle on its own, meaning he was probably sucking up lots of water. His Donaldson would last about 800 miles doing this and he never hadany injector problems from water. I think he ran 60k miles that year with his V2 running between OK, PA and TN and back every week or two.
After seeing this, i no longer worry about perfect dewatering of my oil...if i see a few tiny bubbles, thats fine with me.

[powerstroke73L]

Though I cold upflow settle and centrifuge my oil the last line of defense in my system is a Goldenrod Water-Blok plumbed just before the fill hose that I use to fuel the truck. So far I've passed nearly 350 gallons through it with no sign of any obstruction. My Donaldson now has close to 7000 miles on it and it's still going strong. I'm hoping to get to 10,000 before I see any flickering under heavy acceleration.

[Hooter]

The Donaldson was not intended to be a water block filter. I called Donaldson about a year ago and asked them about this filter, and they said it would not block water. I posted this on the old DFA forum and Jason cleared up both theirs and his stance on the matter with a bunch of numbers and fun words that I had memorized for a couple of days.
Basically the filter we use is made out of the same filter used in the water block filter only ours doesn't have a drain, but rather swells and plugs. The reason we use our current filters is because of the value and availability over the official Donaldson water block filter. I believe I have that right, but feel free to correct me if I missed or confused something.
I also don't think that any filter will catch all water as I have passed wet oil through the donaldson filter, and got a few bubbles from the pan test. This was when I first got into the grease scene and when I freaked and called donaldson, lost a lot of sleep, and spent an obscene amount of money and time until I achieved zero bubbles on the pan test. So while the Donaldson allowed some water to pass, it was probably an "acceptable" amount. Like CHenry, I don't stress like I used to over water. You will have water in your tank after a few heat and cool cycles, and ultimately you will be relying on the Donaldson to catch it.

[lancaster,pa]

Don't think that Donaldson is intended to be a water block filter by design - i could be wrong though. That being the case, they wouldn't publish detailed specs on its water blocking capabilities. No canister filter is really made for this i don't think and the desicants has been tossed around on the frybrid site with no luck.
The only way to be sure your water free is to dewater the oil well.
With that said i have known one guy who pumped dumpster oil straight into his tank...in January up north in PA....meaning the cold temps did not allow the dumpster oil to settle on its own, meaning he was probably sucking up lots of water. His Donaldson would last about 800 miles doing this and he never hadany injector problems from water. I think he ran 60k miles that year with his V2 running between OK, PA and TN and back every week or two.
After seeing this, i no longer worry about perfect dewatering of my oil...if i see a few tiny bubbles, thats fine with me.

Clay,
This may be a royal pain to do (which I can easily understand) but, is it possible for you to post a picture of what "acceptable" oil for you looks like in a hot pan? - Patrick

[Marv]

The Donaldson was not intended to be a water block filter. I called Donaldson about a year ago and asked them about this filter, and they said it would not block water. I posted this on the old DFA forum and Jason cleared up both theirs and his stance on the matter with a bunch of numbers and fun words that I had memorized for a couple of days.
Basically the filter we use is made out of the same filter used in the water block filter only ours doesn't have a drain, but rather swells and plugs. The reason we use our current filters is because of the value and availability over the official Donaldson water block filter. I believe I have that right, but feel free to correct me if I missed or confused something.
I also don't think that any filter will catch all water as I have passed wet oil through the donaldson filter, and got a few bubbles from the pan test. This was when I first got into the grease scene and when I freaked and called donaldson, lost a lot of sleep, and spent an obscene amount of money and time until I achieved zero bubbles on the pan test. So while the Donaldson allowed some water to pass, it was probably an "acceptable" amount. Like CHenry, I don't stress like I used to over water. You will have water in your tank after a few heat and cool cycles, and ultimately you will be relying on the Donaldson to catch it.

Good info Hooter...thanks for posting that up.

I think your last couple sentences there are probably the best stance we can take when it comes to water. As long as you get the majority out of it you can, you'll be fine. Nature and the environment (weather) is going to introduce water into the system regardless of how stringent out filtering/dewatering processes are.

Heck, I'm sure regular #2 diesel has a certain level of water in it that is tolerable. Never researched it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did.

[powerstroke73L]

Heck, I'm sure regular #2 diesel has a certain level of water in it that is tolerable. Never researched it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did.

A while back somebody on the infopop forums had gone around to various truck stops and gas stations, taken samples, and sent them off to a lab to be analyzed and found that the levels were not only higher than expected, they also varied quite a bit from station to station.

[Clay]

Clay,
This may be a royal pain to do (which I can easily understand) but, is it possible for you to post a picture of what "acceptable" oil for you looks like in a hot pan? - Patrick

I could probably do that....hmmm holding a camera, heating a pan, dumping in an oil sample at the same time and snapping a picture at the critical moment....i better set my beer down for this one.
Actually i think i can find something right here on the net that has been my guide.

[Clay]

Heck, I'm sure regular #2 diesel has a certain level of water in it that is tolerable. Never researched it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did.

Ever had the "water in fuel" light come on?
Recently i did (only the second time since buying the truck in 2004) and i drained the water trap under the truck on the pump into a clear, clean container...i saw LARGE droplets of water and some trash (big particle matter).
These droplets were about the size of pinto bean when they joined together. Alot of water? didn't look like it but imagine an injector getting a dose of that.
I can only assume i dont see this light come on often because i don't use much diesel so i wonder how often a person would have to drain this trap if they were buying a tank of diesel weekly instead of every 2 months like me.

[Marv]

Ever had the "water in fuel" light come on?
Recently i did (only the second time since buying the truck in 2004) and i drained the water trap under the truck on the pump into a clear, clean container...i saw LARGE droplets of water and some trash (big particle matter).
These droplets were about the size of pinto bean when they joined together. Alot of water? didn't look like it but imagine an injector getting a dose of that.
I can only assume i dont see this light come on often because i don't use much diesel so i wonder how often a person would have to drain this trap if they were buying a tank of diesel weekly instead of every 2 months like me.

Actually, yeah I have...forgot about that one. I guess I was just thinking that the refineries have a certain level they feel is acceptable before the ship it out for sale.

Mine has went off a number of times...last winter in particular. I think I got a poor tank of fuel.

[Marv]

I could probably do that....hmmm holding a camera, heating a pan, dumping in an oil sample at the same time and snapping a picture at the critical moment....i better set my beer down for this one.
Actually i think i can find something right here on the net that has been my guide.

Nah man, you don't have to put it down. Just get you one of those hats that holds one on each side with the straws....LOL.

Then you can still do everything at once and enjoy your frosty beverage!

[Tampa450]

Ever had the "water in fuel" light come on?
Recently i did (only the second time since buying the truck in 2004) and i drained the water trap under the truck on the pump into a clear, clean container...i saw LARGE droplets of water and some trash (big particle matter).
These droplets were about the size of pinto bean when they joined together. Alot of water? didn't look like it but imagine an injector getting a dose of that.
I can only assume i dont see this light come on often because i don't use much diesel so i wonder how often a person would have to drain this trap if they were buying a tank of diesel weekly instead of every 2 months like me.

I would think its the opposite.

The longer you have a tank of diesel in the tank...the more condensation it would gather. Especially when it gets below 1/2 tank.

It seems like (to me) if you took some fuel thats been sitting in your tank for 2 months and compared it to fuel in a truck that has had 8 tanks of diesel ran through it in the same amount of time.... yours would have more water in it.

Of coarse Im not a scientist...and I could be wrong.

[Marv]

I would think its the opposite.

The longer you have a tank of diesel in the tank...the more condensation it would gather. Especially when it gets below 1/2 tank.

It seems like (to me) if you took some fuel thats been sitting in your tank for 2 months and compared it to fuel in a truck that has had 8 tanks of diesel ran through it in the same amount of time.... yours would have more water in it.

Of coarse Im not a scientist...and I could be wrong.

I would agree with that theory...especially in the colder months. This is one reason I don't like to run around with a low tank when the temperatures can vary so drastically. The more exposed tank surface you have (internally) the more area you have for condensation to form.

[Clay]

But your tank is sealed and not being opened allowing moist air in to condensate. Water can't be produced, it has to be introduced.
So the same water would be condensating over and over maintaining that level of moisture.