On insulating my truck's veg tank

[lancaster,pa]

Insulated my truck's tank for the winter. Made quite a difference. Normally the veg in my uninsulated tank cooled overnight to equal morning ambient temps. After insulating, the temp of veg in my tank after sitting outside for 14 hours was still a full 25F above ambient (ambient this AM was 30F with veg in my tank at 55F). I insulated in hopes of having veg flowing better as my system comes on. 15 F in the dead of winter is pretty common here for nighttime lows (veg should be around 35 to 40F with 15F ambient upon start-up). Pretty satisfied with those results. - Patrick

[biostroker]

How did you insulate your tank? I built a wood panel in front of mine-not for insulation but just so I don't dent it up throwing stuff in the bed. I could probably add some insulation pretty easy though.

[lancaster,pa]

How did you insulate your tank? I built a wood panel in front of mine-not for insulation but just so I don't dent it up throwing stuff in the bed. I could probably add some insulation pretty easy though.

Insulated with 1" rigid foam then covered and secured joints with the foam wrap that came with the V3 kit. Around the tank fittings, I used flexible foam and foil wrap. I'm in the process of covering the insulated tank and lines with aluminum on top and 3 sides for aesthetics (also, hoping to remove the temptation for someone to vandalize hoses).

Did almost the same as you for damage control from throwing firewood in the truck - Made a removable partition out of wood several inches behind the tank. - Patrick

[skyskijason]

Polymerization rate doubles every 10*C, iirc. Many 'early' conversions used insulated tanks, largely to compensate for a lack of heat, but most avoid insulation these days to extend the life of fuel and filters. Ideally, we only want to heat the oil we are going to burn and want to let the rest cool as quickly as possible. The best designs focus the tank heat directly around the fuel pick-up, so preserving 'yesterdays' heat is not needed anyway... (because of heated pick-up, the VO exiting my tank(s) is HOT as soon as I switch over - I burn alot of high fats PH oil and we've already had single-digit lows. My fuel pressure is 80psi instantly, even pushing 25+psi of boost - no 'flickering' due to 'thick' oil here!!!)

The extent to which this is a problem depends on MANY factors including; what type of oil (ie, PH oil is more resistent to poly), how long it was used in fryer, how it was processed (was lots of heat, oxygen and oxidants present - like from using CF and steel drum??), how long and what it has been stored in, etc, etc.

Unless using an effective stabilizer, we ALL have polymerization occurring in our VO. If you have oil that is more prone to it, insulating the VO tank is just egging it on. If nothing else, you will likely be using more on-board filters. All the folks I've met w/alot of miles on an insulated VO tank eventually had to pull tank and remove chicken-skin.

[Clay]

Polymerization rate doubles every 10*C, iirc. Many 'early' conversions used insulated tanks, largely to compensate for a lack of heat, but most avoid insulation these days to extend the life of fuel and filters. Ideally, we only want to heat the oil we are going to burn and want to let the rest cool as quickly as possible. The best designs focus the tank heat directly around the fuel pick-up, so preserving 'yesterdays' heat is not needed anyway... (because of heated pick-up, the VO exiting my tank(s) is HOT as soon as I switch over - I burn alot of high fats PH oil and we've already had single-digit lows. My fuel pressure is 80psi instantly, even pushing 25+psi of boost - no 'flickering' due to 'thick' oil here!!!)

The extent to which this is a problem depends on MANY factors including; what type of oil (ie, PH oil is more resistent to poly), how long it was used in fryer, how it was processed (was lots of heat, oxygen and oxidants present - like from using CF and steel drum??), how long and what it has been stored in, etc, etc.

Unless using an effective stabilizer, we ALL have polymerization occurring in our VO. If you have oil that is more prone to it, insulating the VO tank is just egging it on. If nothing else, you will likely be using more on-board filters. All the folks I've met w/alot of miles on an insulated VO tank eventually had to pull tank and remove chicken-skin.

Thank you for that...this was being discussed yesturday.

[Jack_Toepfer]

So now we have a party of people for it, and a party against it.

I'm still using my kit as it was sold to me with great results.

If we are running aluminum and rubber, are we still concerned with polymerization?

[Clay]

So now we have a party of people for it, and a party against it.

I'm still using my kit as it was sold to me with great results.

If we are running aluminum and rubber, are we still concerned with polymerization?

Not really many for it Jack...insulating a tank is a no no in general.

Polly is occuring always, it is accelerated by heat, moisture, air and certain metals like steel and copper. Aluminum will accelerate it also but not nearly like steel. We obviously can't remove the heat or all of the moisture or air but we can remove the steel and copper. It will still happen.

[Jack_Toepfer]

Clay... a party is 3 or more in my book... and I have parties on both sides. :P

At this point I want to insulate a tank that is already heating too much of the oil. geesh...

[Clay]

thats your perogative for sure.

[rabidsnowmobiler]

I've been thinking about adding an aux coolant pump to help ensure veg oil is as warm as possible, but then decided to just take the cheaper/easier way out by insulating my tank.

However, now that I read this thread, I'm afraid to do either one.

If heat is a "no no" due to the risk of polymerization, then won't adding an aux coolant have the same effect?

[Clay]

I've been thinking about adding an aux coolant pump to help ensure veg oil is as warm as possible, but then decided to just take the cheaper/easier way out by insulating my tank.

However, now that I read this thread, I'm afraid to do either one.

If heat is a "no no" due to the risk of polymerization, then won't adding an aux coolant have the same effect?

Dont take this out of context. I just added a coolant pump to keep my module and HOH lines hot - not to heat my tank more. But consequently it is heating my tank more.
There are alot of opinions in the vegi world that aggree that its not in your best interest to heat the entire tank. Only the oil that is being consummed by the fuel pickup line needs heated so it melts and becomes less viscous so it can flow up the tube without creating a vacumm on the sucktion side of the pump. If your going to drive 200 miles and use 10 fgallons of fuel, there is absolutely no reason to heat all 90 gallons of your fuel. Unfortunately this goal is difficult to achieve. With the DFA custom heated tank we are heating the entire tank...it does not need insulated but if you want to try to make a better mouse trap, go for it. I personally would advise you spend your time and money doing something different if you think you have a heat issue like i did. A coolant pump was the only solution i could come up with to remedy the low flow i was experiencing. In my opinion, a properly working system works very well...to a fault in fact but mine had very low flow and was the oposite extreme. No heat will cause you immediate issues while too much heat may (arguably) cause polymerization of the oil OVER TIME. How much time is in question and is not measureable because it depends on the handling/storage of your oil, your filtration methods and the overall quality of the oil. The key is to use the fuel. Don't fill up with 90 gallons if it will take you 3 months to burn it. If you don't drive much, only put 30 gallons at a time in and use it up before you add more.

[Jack_Toepfer]

I never seriously considered a smaller tank until you just typed that. I've been carrying around 60 gallons of oil because when I get below 1/2 - 5/8 of a tank I get too much sloshing. I also don't like to go out of my way to pump the oil. Now that it is much more convenient to pump it, I can consider the 40 gallon spare tire tank that DFA is working on as a possible solution. I'll be filling up just as often if not less than I do with the 60 gallon and I won't be heat cycling the oil constantly for months on end.

Do we know if the new under truck tanks are going to use a hot-fox or some type of variant?

[Clay]

I never seriously considered a smaller tank until you just typed that. I've been carrying around 60 gallons of oil because when I get below 1/2 - 5/8 of a tank I get too much sloshing. I also don't like to go out of my way to pump the oil. Now that it is much more convenient to pump it, I can consider the 40 gallon spare tire tank that DFA is working on as a possible solution. I'll be filling up just as often if not less than I do with the 60 gallon and I won't be heat cycling the oil constantly for months on end.

Do we know if the new under truck tanks are going to use a hot-fox or some type of variant?

Why is sloshing a problem? My tank is 90 gal. and it only has 40 gallons in it today. When it starts sucking air, i'll put another 40 in it. When i need to drive long distance, i'll pput 90 gal. in it.
I'm not suggesting anyone panic and go buying smaller tanks, just use the fuel in it, in a reasonable amount of time.

Dad has a 60 gallon tank, it takes him 3 months or more this time of year to use it all...he has the old style hotfox and it will not heat his entire tank even if he runs it a long time.

[Clay]

Let me also say, i have never seen poly in a tank from excessive repeated heating...but i also just recently got this heated tank so time will tell. What i am conveying here is opinions of others who have more time in this game than i.

[rabidsnowmobiler]

Dont take this out of context. I just added a coolant pump to keep my module and HOH lines hot - not to heat my tank more. But consequently it is heating my tank more.
There are alot of opinions in the vegi world that aggree that its not in your best interest to heat the entire tank. Only the oil that is being consummed by the fuel pickup line needs heated so it melts and becomes less viscous so it can flow up the tube without creating a vacumm on the sucktion side of the pump. If your going to drive 200 miles and use 10 fgallons of fuel, there is absolutely no reason to heat all 90 gallons of your fuel. Unfortunately this goal is difficult to achieve. With the DFA custom heated tank we are heating the entire tank...it does not need insulated but if you want to try to make a better mouse trap, go for it. I personally would advise you spend your time and money doing something different if you think you have a heat issue like i did. A coolant pump was the only solution i could come up with to remedy the low flow i was experiencing. In my opinion, a properly working system works very well...to a fault in fact but mine had very low flow and was the oposite extreme. No heat will cause you immediate issues while too much heat may (arguably) cause polymerization of the oil OVER TIME. How much time is in question and is not measureable because it depends on the handling/storage of your oil, your filtration methods and the overall quality of the oil. The key is to use the fuel. Don't fill up with 90 gallons if it will take you 3 months to burn it. If you don't drive much, only put 30 gallons at a time in and use it up before you add more.

I'm not currently having oil temperature problems, but was just thinking about adding a little insurance to make sure I don't have problems when I head north this winter to sub zero temps. One thing that got me thinking was comments from other users on how their tanks would feel hot to the touch. My tank gets luke warm at best, and that is after longer trips. I guess that is more of a factor of the 91 gallon tank vs. smaller tanks.

I put 25-30k miles on my truck a year, so oil doesn't sit in my tank for long. At this point, it sounds like it would be best to use it as it is, and if I start having problems, then make changes as necessary.