B100 plus Vegistroke = BAD?

[skyskijason]

B100 in the diesel tank may not be good. Lets put it this way - I'm not using it until I get a 'fuel stabilizer' that mitigates polymerization. I have some BioExtend 30 on the way...

So, I changed diesel filter as a matter of preventative maintenance before I left Seattle. I was HORRIFIED to find signs of polymerization in my factory diesel filter. It looks JUST ike the pics in that Bosch report C. Goodwin likes to quote that says don't use more than B20 in their pumps. Ok, then about CO when I was out of VO and burnin' (more) B100, I began to loose fuel pressure under load. Stopped and bought a new diesel filter and found more of same stuff in filter and filter bowl - damn. Burned a couple tanks of D2 before getting more VO. I JUST bought more diesel the first time the other day, it was down to 1/4 tank (uh, 2800ish miles since last purchase). Yesterday, fuel press (on D2) down again, and yep, more poly stuff in bowl and dead filter.

The 'stuff' is a lining on bowl and small flakes of gritty substance that settle to bottom. I took some pics last nite, but didn't have time to upload'em yet - not sure if they tell the tale anyway.

So, I suspect this stuff has 'contaminated' the diesel tank and my issues have just begun. I also wonder if the copper guts in my stock diesel pump are lined w/poly, maybe hampering its ability to do its job.

WHY?? I think it is likely to do w/the SAME B100 sitting in the 'pressure cooker/poly maker' previously reffered to as the diesel filter bowl. This metal container sits on top of a HOT engine for HOURS and HOURS at a time. Then I flip on diesel pump to purge and pump almost ALL of that stuff back to diesel tank. Then I do it again the next day, and the next - once this summer 7500 miles and only 1/2 tank of B100. THATS ALOT OF COOKIN' FRIENDS!!!

I have been using B100 for 1.5 yrs now. Anyone else w/similar usage to me?

No problem at all on VO!

[Wilson]

No BIO exp here so forgive me...

I know you say running for 1.5yrs, but doesn't the B100 cause tank delam. issues (similar to what you describe) like filters clogging frequently, etc.

Maybe some tank scum got loose and worked it's way into the fuel system?

Can you drain a line (pre pump) into a bucket... like a gallon to see if there's any debris?

[Tampa450]

It sounds like maybe you got some bad bio, or the bio you got didnt "age" in your tank very well.....?
Was the bio made from WVO?
All the bio I used to buy was made from virgin soy oil, and I never saw anything even resembling polymerization. I let it sit in my 550 for a cple months...but thats about it....

WHY?? I think it is likely to do w/the SAME B100 sitting in the 'pressure cooker/poly maker' previously reffered to as the diesel filter bowl. This metal container sits on top of a HOT engine for HOURS and HOURS at a time. Then I flip on diesel pump to purge and pump almost ALL of that stuff back to diesel tank. Then I do it again the next day, and the next - once this summer 7500 miles and only 1/2 tank of B100. THATS ALOT OF COOKIN' FRIENDS!!!

I thought when you purge, its pumped back into your VO tank.
The only bio and VO that got mixed together would have been in the fuel rails/injectors right before shutdown, and burned right away.....right?
Im just thinking....it seems like the bio caused that mess all by itself.......

[skyskijason]

Yes, I cleaned the 'scum' from my diesel system straight off. Against all recomendations - I put prolly B90 in there first tank. Lets just say that was not a pretty filter or 3. I know I've changed it since then, but it wasn't very dirty - and NONE caused loss of fuel pressure like now.

As for bad bio - not impossible, I'll have to ponder that some more. Polymerization is the mortal enemy of VO, and transesterification (sp? thats too big a word for a dumie like me anyway.) does not change that. They are JUST NOW adding succesful fuel stabilzers to commercial biodiesel. Trust me, the learning curve for this was steep in the industry I work in.

I really think the 'cooking' is a big contributor here. Oh, the diesel pump supplies prolly more than 10 times the engines need at idle, the rest of that fuel is returned to diesel tank. Yes, some is diverted to the VO tank during purge, but that is filtered fuel - the return is pre-filter in stock filter bowl, so everything outside filter is 'returned'. I'm wondering if a bunch of this gritty stuff was sent to tank each time I switched back to diesel and now is slowly making its way to filter. I'm thinking MOST of this stuff is prolly not visible to naked eye. What I see and feel is just the tip of the iceberg - there is likely ALOT more 'stuff' plugging filter I cannot see. I'm taking last filter home for a full blown forensic investigation... RIP

[Marv]

I've always heard Bio was rough on the stock filters, but should clear up after a few tanks.

I might have missed it in your earlier post, but how many tanks of B100 have you ran through it so far?

[greasyX]

Jason forgive me was that a 7.3 or 6.o?I know my 7.3 had SUCTION when my stock pump went,this said you should able to put a paper/plexi encased filter before stock pump.I suggest CAT style with the "Bleed" screw to drain/relieve contamination,prior to stock pump,before all those filters your replacing.I know it wouldn't fix your main problem,but it will help ya limp home with out hurting your truck.This is a common trucker fix for algae in the old sticky from days of yore.................greasy

[skyskijason]

Jason forgive me was that a 7.3 or 6.o?I know my 7.3 had SUCTION when my stock pump went,this said you should able to put a paper/plexi encased filter before stock pump.I suggest CAT style with the "Bleed" screw to drain/relieve contamination,prior to stock pump,before all those filters your replacing.I know it wouldn't fix your main problem,but it will help ya limp home with out hurting your truck.This is a common trucker fix for algae in the old sticky from days of yore.................greasy

Marv, your right - it cleared right up after a couple tanks. 1.5 yrs = about 50k miles and average VO at least 3/4ths of the time - uh, I dunno - a bunch of tanks???

Greasy, 7.3 and NO PROBLEM 'limping' home - I got another fuel system that works just FINE! Whatdya mean by 'suction'?

I looked at the filter bowl pics again - you can see the stuff, hoping to be able to upload'em later...

[greasyX]

A 7.3 draws suction/pull even when stock diesel pump goes,I lost a stock fuel pump a awhile ago ,it continued running at idle,not to get going though.I talked it up with some of my trucker buddys and they said thats one this International designed for there Service/medium duty trucks.Imagine losing fuel pump at 20-F(like I did),that feature insures your not a icicle if stranded.The suction PULLS fuel through pump,enough to idle so you still have HEAT.This is why I stated the filter Before fuel pump,to pre-pre-filter gunk with a servicable filter.Seem like just about when i get to know my rig I learn more,and more..................greasy

[Marv]

A 7.3 draws suction/pull even when stock diesel pump goes,I lost a stock fuel pump a awhile ago ,it continued running at idle,not to get going though.I talked it up with some of my trucker buddys and they said thats one this International designed for there Service/medium duty trucks.Imagine losing fuel pump at 20-F(like I did),that feature insures your not a icicle if stranded.The suction PULLS fuel through pump,enough to idle so you still have HEAT.This is why I stated the filter Before fuel pump,to pre-pre-filter gunk with a servicable filter.Seem like just about when i get to know my rig I learn more,and more..................greasy

Now that's a pretty cool feature...never heard of that one before.

Was the 7.3 the last time they had that, or do any of the newer engines have that ability?

[greasyX]

As long as fuel lines not totally blocked any 7.3(99-03) or DT444 will have this feature,sometimes over looked,until ya need heat on the road with a bad fuel pump.I am not sure of newer engines having this as 6.0 and6.4 are pick up intended motors and 7.3 was a multiple application motor........greasy

[Clay]

i once started the truck (6 oh) and pulled the fuse to the pump...it still idled but would not climb up the driveway.

[skyskijason]

As long as fuel lines not totally blocked any 7.3(99-03) or DT444 will have this feature,sometimes over looked,until ya need heat on the road with a bad fuel pump.I am not sure of newer engines having this as 6.0 and6.4 are pick up intended motors and 7.3 was a multiple application motor........greasy

Its a result of how the HUEI system works. There is a minimum 'vacuum' directly from the injectors - even a little 'pressure' from split-shots. But only at idle. The 6.0 should be similar, it is also HUEI...

My diesel pump is on a switch, so I've forgotten to turn it on a few times. I can verify she'll run jus fine - but NO power.

[Marv]

i once started the truck (6 oh) and pulled the fuse to the pump...it still idled but would not climb up the driveway.

Clay, how'd you come across that? Were you checking for this or doing something else?

[skyskijason]

Update - at $30ish each, these diesel filters are getting expensive! I had to use a few tanks of dino-diesel on the way home and just now have some VO ready to burn. I am on 3rd diesel filter and its dead right now - I think thats about a filter every other diesel tank !!! (dunno off hand how many total miles - but diesel pump is OFF when burnin' VO) Also, NO biodiesel for like 2 mths now - all dino...

Before I change this one, I'm gonna run D2 tank to empty (hopefully!). Not sure how much junk is in tank, but hoping this is it. If not, tank comes out for cleaning. I almost added a 'prefilter' like greasy suggested, but I don't like bandaids - especially when I'm HOME w/all the resources of my shop at my disposal. I fully expect to drop the tank soon...

The good news is, it idles fine on diesel and I've got this cool 2nd fuel system that WORKS GREAT. If I put my foot in it on Diesel, fuel pressure drops to ZERO if I stay in it, but jumps right back to 50-55psi at no load/idle. After changing the filter, I get solid 50ish psi all the time - for awhile.

No more B100 in the veggie-powered rigs until we figure out what caused this. There are 3-4 other trucks running same B100 w/o issues, so I'd like to rule out the fuel itself as the problem. Mine is the only one w/VO conversion - the only one that leaves the SAME fuel 'cooking' in the filter bowl on top of a hot, hardworking engine for several hours at a time...

Any more ideas? I hate actually PAYING for my fuel! (I have about 75 gals of B100 just staring at me also!)

[Wilson]

how do you potentially even attribute the problem to WVO?

I assume you only share heads/injectors with your B2/Bio fuel system (ala vegistroke) I could understand if you were having WVO issues with B100 purging into the WVO tank...

But I am just having a hard time associating WVO with the issue.

Or am i missing something on your system?